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'Running Away From War'
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T O P I C
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Discussion Started: 05-08-2007, 3:54 PM
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If you watched Colleen Henry's 12 News investigation on Tuesday night, "Running Away From War," do you have a question you would like Colleen to answer or a comment you'd like to make on her story?
You can submit your questions, and Colleen will answer them Wednesday. Her responses will be posted on the site after 1 p.m. .
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View Messages: [newest first] | [oldest first]
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ryno6920
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05-09-2007, 7:32 AM
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We have an all volunteer military. There is no draft. I think alot of these deserters signed up to get money for college, see the world, but did not anticipate going to war. That is what soldiers do. They are dishonoring the men who died before them. They are cowards in every way shape and form. They need to be prosecuted with the full extent of the law.
"It's not that liberals are ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."---Ronald Reagan
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therevbev
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05-09-2007, 8:26 AM
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Colleen- I am tired of children and parents who used the US military to get $ or an easy job who now seem surprized that they actually joined the MILITARY. My son preenlisted in the Marines yesterday and knows EXACTLY what he's doing. Why should the American public give ANY lee-way to those who were happy for our funds and support but are not willing to do what they promised to do - whether you agree, or like it or NOT. Question- what acually would determine the punishment these "soldiers" face if they returned to the US? Also, what kind of "persecution" are they claiming to face?
Thank you. Carol
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milnews
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05-09-2007, 9:49 AM
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Carol -
Thanks for your note.
The Military Code of Justice provides for detention in a military facility for months or years...to, in a time of war (which is a technical distinction that has not been defined in this context), the death penalty. In reality, these defectors are looking at either months or a few years in the brig.
As for their claim of persecution - the soldiers argue that they have been asked to fight an illegal war, and since the war is illegal, so, too, are the orders they receive as part of that mission. If the duties are illegal, then, under international law, they say they are free to disregard them. The soldiers say the U.S. decision to punish them for refusing to fight this war is "persecution" based on their political and moral beliefs.
So far, the courts in Canada have not accepted this argument in their petitions for asylum, but the issue is part of the ongoing litigation working its way through Canada's higher courts.
Colleen
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mrsfeed
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05-09-2007, 11:56 AM
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I am currently going thru this with my 19 year old son. He had enlisted in the Marines in August. He had told me he wanted to make this a career when he signed up. Recently he had came home and told me that he had changed his mind about being enlisted. He had told me deep down inside he was unable to kill any human being. After 2 weeks of being home he is now back at his station awaiting for the discipline actions against him. My son loves this country and has recieved no benefits from the military for enlisting. He had one question for me that I could not answer and that is why is it that you can voluteer to go into the military but you can not voluntary get out? I know now that he should have given more thought about this when he signed up and I know this is disrespecting the brave people who serve. Unforturnately these young people are just starting life as an adult and sometimes don't know what they want to do and they don't know the consquences. I had told my son he needed to go back and face the consquences no matter what they might be. That is what they call being honorable.
Deb
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pnclement
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05-09-2007, 7:05 PM
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For nearly all of us, we don't have to face their moral dilemma; either to fight in a possible immoral/illegal war or flee from serving.
Nearly everyone is quick to cite the fact that we have an all volunteer service and these people signed up to serve, but equally and quicker, seem to forget that within that framework there are repeated examples of all enlisted personnel, as well as commissioned officers, having to obey only "legal orders" and not to commit any crimes in their conduct as soldiers.
Occupying a country that we had no right to invade in the first place, certainly raises more than one question as to whether or not we have a right to be there, as well as being the key factor in untold violence that now grips most of Iraq.
At Nuremburg, the defense by Nazis "that they were only following orders to kill civilians (today's non-combatants), doesn't excuse their illegal actions in following illegal orders by superiors, just because they were ordered to do so. Be it a Hitler or a Bush, having the power to order acts, in itself does not make it right!
In my opinion, these brave men -- every bit as brave as those who are there serving -- are standing up for their moral convictions, which is harder to do than merely going along with the mob or crowd.
Patrick Clement Greenfield, WI
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johnzutz
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05-09-2007, 11:09 PM
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An interesting story. You subtitled it "Coward or Hero" but didn't interview anyone, other than themselves, who views them as heros. You seem to imply that all veterans, except those who have actually fled to Canada, think the deserters are not only wrong, they are cowards. Not true.
I served honorably in Vietnam and wish that at the time I had the courage to cross the border as these young men - and presumably women - have done.
How about an interview with a vet who supports them?
On a more personal note, you interviewed Greg Jacobs as part of the story. I respect much of what Greg has done in support of veterans, but I believe he should have been identified as a Federal employee.
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EDYULE
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05-10-2007, 9:44 AM
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To the people who called the people cowards they are cowards, I am a US Army veterans of twenty years of service, and I was in Iraq at the start with the 101st Abn Division out of Ft Campbell,Ky. I am totally against the war myself because there will never be peace or harmony in that part of the world. But why don't they call Bush and Cheney cowards because they never served during the Vietnam War. Bush said he served, but why don't people remember him. Cheney said he had more important things to do. Where is Bush daughters? Why, are they not in the desert. Did any of the neo- cons ever served in the military, like Bill Kristol, Paul Wolfwitz's. Didn't Bush run on being a compassionate conservtative. Where is the compassionate when children have to grow up without a parent because of a war that DID NOT CAUSE 9/11. The parents and the American people should be outrage on what happen during the last six years with this President and his administration. Some kids join the military to pay for college, not everyone is rich, it is like when you go to college's and ask the kids if they support the war, and they say yes, but then you ask them would they go fight they say no, these are the hypocrites and the spoil rich little brats. Daddy and Mommy kids who will never be responsible in there lives. Some people don't know now it is in the military until they serve, but to all the people that did serve HOOAH!!!
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Neuroticax
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05-10-2007, 9:46 AM
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I agree with the above. Most of these people join the Army/Military because it's "cool" and you can get money from it. Not thinking that "Hey, I could REALLY have to fight for my country!" Instead of fighting for their country, with the men and women who TRUELY want to fight, they run, like cowards. That's like joing the Police Force, but refusing to work the streets, because your life could be at stake.
This is all such a shame, really. Let them stay in Canada, where they belong. If they don't want to fight for this country, then they shouldn't be here anyway!
-Neuroticax
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lissab
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05-10-2007, 10:33 AM
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This is my opinion people DOES ANYONE REMEMBER 9/11???? What about all those people who died Because someone is scared and dont feel like going to Iraq it's fine for them to go to CANADA no I dont think so..When you enlist into the millitary you read the contract and signed at the dot. Just like you do in any other contract they are always consequences if you breach your contract. Do you think the men and woman who got drafted in the World Wars wanted to go fight NO they didnt but you better believe they did to protect our country!!!It's no different then how they killed all those people in the Trade Towers no different when they killed all of them at PEARL HARBOR. I also dont think it iS right that millitary people have to do all these tours in Iraq While the shameful ones are sitting in Canada!!!!These people have families too... I feel that they should've never signed up if they were to scared to follow thru!!!IT JUST ISNT RIGHT!!!HOW CAN YOU CALL AMERICA HOME IF YOU CANT EVEN STAND UP AND PROTECT YOUR COUNTRY THAT YOU SIGNED UP TO PROTECT!!!!
Melissa
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unmasker
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05-10-2007, 12:37 PM
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I thought the comment from "EDYULE" - the faker pretending to be Airborne - was a particularly good summary of every lying talking point coming out of Howard Dean's DNC.
A note to EDYULE and other fakers: Soldiers will rarely be found chanting the Marines' "HOOAH!"
Looking at the actual article, we have two painfully unintelligent slackers ("I thought the National Guard was a humanitarian organization." Seriously?) who abandoned noncombat clerical posts out of sheer laziness.
I applaud Colleen Henry for doing her job as a reporter and allowing her sources to express themselves so extensively in this piece.
To quote Corey Glass from the article: " . . . but I couldn't dig too deep to find out some things, like changes from like civilians being like, killed, to like, so now they're insurgents . . . "
These two aren't moral philosophers or exiles of conscience. They are none-too-bright layabouts.
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