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Discussion group:  NewsTop   Discussion group:  News News    Discussion Topic: Bus Strike Bus Strike

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Bus Strike
T O P I C Discussion Started: 08-20-2003, 1:59 PM Add to the Discussion
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The Teamster Union that represents bus drivers for TheBus has said it will go on strike if a new contract agreement is not reached.

This could affect 250,000 commuters.

Share your views on the strike possibility and what the union wants.

View Messages: [newest first] | [oldest first]
Ipo 10-27-2003, 9:24 AM Add to the Discussion
Mr. Hu, What do you do or what did you do for a living. Your comment sounds like someone who sat behind a desk and went to lunch at expensive places places and wrote it off on the taxpayers $$$. Some of us have families and living in Hawaii is too expensive for some to even barely make it. Look at all the lives that bus drivers have on thier hands everyday. No bathrooms for those days you can't just hold it in. The weirdo's they deal with. The complaints they get about being 2 minutes late. We are only human. Before you talk the talk walk the walk. If you been in these shoes than SHAME ON YOU FOR SPEAKING THAT WAY. YOU SHOULD BE RELATING TO WHAT THESE PEOPLE HAVE TO GO THRU. Tell me you don't know of one single person that count on these men and women to get them to work and school and expect to be there on time and safe at that. Get Real Mr. Hu. Get out of your Lexus and take the bus.

Thank You, Ipo

awsomeron 10-25-2003, 4:34 PM Add to the Discussion
mhu: I agree with you and itis that very concept that makes for strong labor unions. If I my group and i are good worker. In the case of Dus Drivers. Show Up. Stay On Time, Don't have accidents, treat riders well, go where the Bus is suppose to go. Help the disabled passangers, etc etc. Day in day out 24/7, at all hours of the day and night. If that jobs pays $21 plus after 6 years. Then so be it. That what its worth. You could always be a Security Guard. About the same idea, but no lunch and near min wage because that is what the job is worth. Why is it worth that. Because that is what people are willing to go to work and do the job for. If no one showed up to take the job at min wage. Then the wage would have to go up. Same apply across the board. The job is worth what ever the workers are willing to work for. A strong Bus Drivers Union, and Public Workers Unions keep wages strong. A man/woman shouyld only have to have one job. A married woman with keiki, should be at home saising the keiki.Cuts down on all the problems the Keiki have. I know that this only repersents a segment of society. Everyone has a special situation.

Those That Dance, Appear To Be Insane. To Those That Can't Hear The Music.awsomeron@yahoo.com

mhu 10-15-2003, 1:54 PM Add to the Discussion
Do you know how to tell when you've really made it in society?

When you begin to realize the world is what you make of it -- and not what you demand from it, as though still a child.

You know how to tell a productive worker from a drone who thinks his job is to show up everyday just to eat lunch? That worker thinks of himself as the labor, the management, the owner -- and even the customer. He is the whole and not one of th countless fragments of a world divided against itself. When we begin to think wholly, from every perspective and not merely one's own -- which is what can the world do for me today, what does society owe me, how can I get over on the next guy, how am I more deserving than the next guy? -- I think all our problems in Hawaii and the world will be solved without our even "trying" to solve them. We just need this fully integrated approach -- with everybody being responsible mature adults not claiming special privileges.

It is these claims to special privileges that is the danger to every society in the world -- and the root of all our problems, not their solution.

Mike Hu

awsomeron 10-14-2003, 1:43 AM Add to the Discussion
If you are truely needy and you apply to SSI, it takes them 6 months or more to process your paper work. True need is in the eye of the beholder.. If I am a Crack Head then I truely need Crack. When I was younger I truely needed a Woman. If pictures were taken the morning after that would have been apparent. Now I have a real nice one and it really does not matter as much anymore. They tell me that new things to do replace the old. They don't replace the old. They just take up the time. We as a Society have determined an Age. For being truely needy and getting discounts. Discounts are always made up either by less product or Valume or both. About age 55 it starts 65 it becomes real. People at 65 get checks from the Goverment weather they need them or not. They also get reduced fare on The Bus. So what. They have given much to our Society. Some could be your parents or grandparents. All the People I went to High School are old. All the young half dressed hottie California girls. I could not get. I now would Not Want. Jane Fonda is old. Which does not change her or her status. Vietnam Vets know who she is. Jane Fonda is old enough to get Social Security. Jane Fonda could get a discount Bus Pass.. Everyone lives on a fixed income. Unless they work on Commission. Evan if they have two jobs. Most poples retirement dreams have to do with having enough food and getting to the Doctor and being able to buy meds and getting to the Next Day. Because the one certain thing that they face is facing them. However they have given to our Society and we need to be Respectful. Yes the Baby Boomers are growing older. Thats a good thing. As a cutting edge Baby Boomer. I assure you I have given to the Society. In my case we are more or less evan. I Paid $40 for my Bus Pass the other day. -a 6 dollar rebate because of the Strike. I look forward to paying less only 7 more years to go. I use a Bus Now Because I won't drive and Park Downtown. Pay between $3.75 a day and $6 dollars and stress about my Car/Van having a place to be. Because I have to be where I have to be on time. The Bus has its draw backs. The other choice would be to Sell and move downtown. Not happening. So the Bus wins out. My Wife on the other hand gets free unhassled parking. So she takes the Car. She would not be a Cool Bus Person anyway.. The Strike is over now. Lots of things to talk about. Lets move on.

Those That Dance, Appear To Be Insane. To Those That Can't Hear The Music.awsomeron@yahoo.com

mhu 10-13-2003, 1:03 PM Add to the Discussion
The solution to The Bus problem is obvious -- but they don't want to accept it.

They should charge everybody the same -- and not create an "entitled" class supported by everybody else.

That's the problem of all the entitlement/preference programs -- they tax the many for the benefit of a few. That's why all those programs based on those premises are problematical for the future -- Social Security, Medicare, union seniority, etc. Eventually everybody moves into the entitled class and there's nobody left to pay the bills.

The anti-discrimination proponents would have us believe that ALL discriminations are invalid -- when what is advised is not discriminating on matters that don't make a difference. However, one still should discriminate when it makes a difference -- such as 1 + 1 = 3. Anti-discrimination proponents would say that one should not discriminate 3 from 2. Or that not all mature citizens are senile, fragile, destitute.

I've always been for helping the truly needy. What I can't support is subsidizing everybody who demands it. By my estimation, fully 90% of those claiming to be poor are merely cheap and will say anything to get out of paying their fair share. Sorry, no more free rides.

Mike Hu

awsomeron 10-12-2003, 10:22 PM Add to the Discussion
I agree with you about the Firemen. However what does that have to do with the Bus Drivers. Many of the Firemen have degrees also. If a School Teacher makes less then a Bus Driver, he/she can always quit and apply for a job... As far as the Teachers go they are the ones that went out on Strike. Then Crossed the line. The Nurses also went out on strike and in many cases went back, ate lunch with and hugged the SCABS. Having become SCABS themselfs. People now cry foul on both. It is not the fault of the Bus Drivers that they make more then some Teachers, Policemen and Firemen. Some in each group have degrees. I am not sure what the Degree thing is about. Because you have one does not entitle you to more money then a person that does not. Just opens up the Job Market so that you have a chance to earn more then a person without one. There are No Entitlements in life except that one day we will all die. Nothing else is certain. After Life is not even certain as it is mostly a faith based issue. With different Faith Groups telling you different things. All of whom have an Agenda. I have Faith that what mine tells me is true. Evan if it is Not TRue and this is IT..... It still has not been a bad life. I perfer to believe that there is somthing else. Mostly because if this is it. Then its really time to leave already. Spare up a little more food for the rest of the folks. Most of the World still lives with raw untreated sewege. That is to point out that we spend most of our time being ungreatful.. Many of us say we are but it is only at a lip service leval. maybe the best we can do.. The Next Time the Bus Drivers go out on Strike. They need to Demand. 25 year retirement. A Raise. No loss in Pay while out on Strike. Plus any Money the City Saves Goes To Them. As the 3 Million that the City saved should have. I would have Voted No On The Contract for just that reason.If the City wants to save money the could have Not Messed up Farrington Highway. Putting a fence down the middle with grass on either side. That bandaid does not cover the Nasty Section Eight Housing on eitherside. Plus the millons it will cost to keep it up and pick up the trash. Remember a School Teacher Works 9 Month a Year. Also has every Weekend Off. According to the Test Scores are Not doing a lot in the way of educating the Keiki.. I realize that is a far from easy job. They are worth every cent and more. However they buckled and settled. The Bus Drivers Diden't.There in lies the difference. Its Not The Bus Drivers Fault, that they make more.

Those That Dance, Appear To Be Insane. To Those That Can't Hear The Music.awsomeron@yahoo.com

edwatch 10-11-2003, 10:19 PM Add to the Discussion
To think that a subsidized bus pass is somehow a contract to provide service is patently ridiculous. It is nothing more than an unearned privilege, subject to revocation or modification at any time. Otherwise, all passengers with passes would be free to sue OTS for losses incurred due to the strike. If valid, this kind of thinking would likely lead to the dismantling of government subsidized transportation altogether due to the limitless liability of the provider. Wouldn't that be a service to us all?

When I pay for my driver's license, I don't get a guarantee that I will be allowed to drive for it's full term. That privilege may be rescinded at any time, without a refund either. Mr. Hall, grow up!

on call...

RONHAWAII 10-10-2003, 2:40 PM Add to the Discussion
"edwatch:" writes:

  • "I agree with you that most riders may have preferred 'no rate increase, no transfer policy change, with the cut in service' over the current situation. BUT, how can we get there from here? How much back-pedalling can be done?"

    Your question makes a good point. My personal best at answering the question is that, today, a fire engine drove pass me with its sirens blaring and its lights flashing. I just can not comfortably come to terms with the stark contrast of a bus driver having a 100% paid benefits through irregularities of lubricated palms and dim-wit public servants, while a fireman, who might or might not be on the fire truck's return trip back to the station, refrained from making an irrevocably demand that society pay 100% of his medical---even though, without question, a fireman's physical health and his manna are paramount to rescuing the lives of strangers.

    "edwatch:" Posting Mr. Hall's letter-to-the-editor to this forum does not authorize me to clarify, in proxy, the principles that may be endeared by him. But since his letter was mailed to a public domain venue---to my knowledge---he was not trying to promote copyright, thus, will not pursue a law suit against me for infringement or contributory tarnishment for any misinterpretation occurring on this forum. The coincidence of having two rival newspapers posting the same letter from the same person on the same morning, probably only happens once in every ten years. Obviously, both editors in charge---decided independently of each other---that Mr. Hall's letter had some merit. I am in agreement with the editors. As I have posted numerous lengthy rants (screeds) to this board from the inception of the bus strike topic, and read other people's posts---both pro and con---I thought that the readers of this board would find Mr. Hall's letter of interest.

    Particularly, his claim that it is a breach of contract when the City requires seniors to pay new fees for their bus passes when the period that they pre-paid for with their existing senior passes had not yet expired. The fact that the kapunas had to wait hours in line, and some of the elderly were even turned away at the end of the day, only enlarges the exodus of the people's aloha from the bus drivers. I personally don't believe that most of our senior citizens really could not survive with a reduction-in-service on their unhurried retirement schedules. It does not follow though that these seniors' tolerance will survive having to come back a second day to the Blaisdell. As the majority of our older retirees live on set-incomes, they are further insulted when they must endure a long wait on their feet to pay for an extra surcharge to fund a level of bus routes that they would have elected was more economical to do without.

    At $41,000 a year---the new five-year bus contract guarantees most of the drivers will receive over $200,000 on bare-bones wages, alone, for the run of the contract. Be aware too, at the end of 20 years---at today's level of compensation, and without factoring in any adjustment for periodic wage and benefit increases---their paycheck's grand total will tally up to $1 million---quite lucrative for an employment immune from the spectre of lay-offs. With this amount of loot, the bus drivers have enough to contribute a good portion for their own medical insurance and retirement fund---a double whopper as it stands today. Even, if lay-offs became possible, by a political miracle that drifted upon our shores, or a concession-clause that fell from out of the sky, such a citizen's mandate would pose little threat to the present group of drivers' livelihoods, because any lay-offs would be cancelled-out by---older drivers retiring---some drivers moving to the mainland---and the population's natural growth with a correlating increase in bus service, with laid-off drivers given first preference to fill in any open slots. So, essentially, the no lay-off impasse at the strike talks was senseless, since, a lay-off would not be a permanent severence.

    My contention, in my previous post, was that the bus drivers' wage and benefits should have been treated with a take it or leave it offer, decremented year by year---at least---until the drivers high compensation landed back on earth. But this would have required a City Council that was biased in favor of the bus rider. However, today, there would neither, have been long lines at the Blaisdell, nor the fed-up temperament at the bus station's customer's center. Nor would the present bus contract be costing me an additional $120.00 more a year in take-home pay for my bus pass. The fact that a bus driver's application does not stipulate a pre-requisite of a $50,000 investment for higher education---adding tuition together with the amount of lost revenue a student has to forsake from not holding a 40-hour a week job, while attending classes for 4 years---militates strongly on the side of the argument that the bus drivers' compensation is a financial parcel zoned on Mt. Keala. I doubt that even 1% of the elderly standing in line at the Blaisdell had enjoyed this kind of monetary compensation in their own careers, even when adjusted.

    The drivers for Honolulu's earlier buses, that is, when the person behind the steering wheel was physically, as well as, spiritually in the aloha state, were required to carry coin dispensers to make change, and one of their daily chores was dictated by a small metal lever on the side of a glassed-in fare box. The drivers had to use the lever to clear the first passenger's deposit in the fare box so the driver could then visually count the next customer's fare separately.....and then the next.....and the next..... Even if the buses were air conditioned back then---the work conditions would have still been much more mentally distressing and more physically demanding than operating the buses of today with its push buttons and mechanized fare boxes. With the lop-sided relation that the bus drivers have with their current financial compensation compared to their real market value, Cowen will never accumulate enough wealth to set up anything close to a Winberg Foundation, and neither will anyone in Hawaii have derived anything substantial nor extra---unless the drivers reimburse the state by leaving their brains anonymously to science, thus, endowing a study of a select group of individuals, whose sole proficiency lay in their talent of using both their fingers and their toes for counting dollar bills staining themselves with the green dirt, and whose craniums bore a full array of kokua-deficient brain cells---the cause of an uncharacteristic inability to grasp the concept of mahalo.

    In our state, nurses have to be imported from the mainland because of a serious lack of supply. Their high pay---in many cases augmented with subsidized apartments---is understandable. Police recruits are paid to be locally trained---but soon to fly away to greener pastures. This is not the case for bus drivers' vacancies. If tomorrow, the City and County of Honolulu were to put out a flyer on the World Wide Web asking for bus drivers---by next week, several hundred bus drivers from across the nation would be arriving in town to apply for the same position. This is partially due to our weather. But more so, for the thrill of driving upon our golden highways.

    Our current public transportation system will always be lapped by the surge of insolvency with our payroll at high tide level to a point where the passengers' personal incomes are stretched and our tolerance exceeds its modulus of elasticity.....BRT, our municipality's latest brainchild, is already post-mortem with our prodigal bus system's thirst for high labor cost guzzling its financial blood. City Hall ought to be gagged and bound if they even contemplate modifying the bus system to improve service, lest they groom a transit Frankenstein who might walkout one night at 12:01 am to fender bender our island's livelihood. The recent bus fiasco demonstrates that the royal exhortation of ''absolutely no money'' soon reaps a decree alerting passengers to form a bucket brigade to pour cash into a customized fare box. Either, City Hall lacks the fiscal acumen, or harbors special-interest groups, or is crisis challenged, or relishes dunce caps, or wandered away from the clinic.....well you get the picture.

  • AllBus 10-10-2003, 4:53 AM Add to the Discussion
    Anything having to do with the bus pass is under the directive of Department of Transportation - Cheryl Soon. DTS has FULL CONTROL over this bus pass mess.

    It's Cheryl Soon who is putting our seniors thru all this nonsense. Cheryl Soon did not properly plan this whole thing out.

    I just wish that they (DTS-Cheryl Soon) would STOP using the public as pawns.

    If they got a BEEF with City Council dont use our senior citizens to be the scape goats...

    If they got a BEEF with OTS...dont send senior citizens and disabled riders to Middle Street knowing that they (bus pass office)only have TWO cameras to issue bus passes.

    Thats pretty manipulative to say that they're only taking cash at NBC but at Middle Street they'll accept checks and credit cards! Is that DIRTY or what?

    So they'll add 5 more cameras and what continue to send the seniors to Middle Street?

    FIGHT YOUR BATTLES WITH THEM (CITY COUNCIL OR OTS) BUT DONT USE THE TAXPAYERS AS YOUR PAWNS.

    AND THE BABOOZE AWARD GOES TO ...CHERYL SOON.

    DOES ANYBODY KNOW WHO'S RESPONSIBLE FOR CHERYL SOON'S ACTIONS? YOURS TRULY... MAYOR HARRIS

    SHAME ON YOU MAYOR HARRIS.. WHY DO YOU ALLOW CHERYL SOON TO DO THIS TO OUR SENIORS AND DISABLED RIDERS...DID YOU GO BACK IN YOUR BOX JEREMY?

    mhu 10-09-2003, 1:20 PM Add to the Discussion
    Buses should be free -- and come every five minutes.

    Gasoline should be fifty cents a gallon -- and be unlimited.

    Pensions should be twice what you made while actually working.

    The schools really don't do a very good job of educating the people, do they?

    Mike Hu

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