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Church Shootings
T O P I C Discussion Started: 12-10-2007, 7:18 PM Add to the Discussion
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Many of our viewers have written to 7NEWS calling Jeanne Assam a hero for stopping the gunman attacking the New Life Church in Colorado Springs. Tell us what you think.

Also, leave your prayers and messages for the victims and their families.

View Messages: [newest first] | [oldest first]
mick in co 10-04-2009, 11:51 AM Add to the Discussion
Jeanne, Please be very careful when it all dies down. I went through something like this and after the glow grew dim I crashed. Mick in Aurora

mick in aurora

svanohlen 03-19-2008, 2:46 AM Add to the Discussion
My thoughts and prayers are with all of your families. Sheila Vanohlen

sheila vanohlen

that ben 02-21-2008, 12:33 PM Add to the Discussion
AHHHGGGRRHHH!!! I understand that what Jeanne has done could be heroic. I am sure her church thanks her for their safety. What concerns me is the fact the we keep bringing this up in the news! This many months after this horrific incident, we are still keeping this story in the media? It's like the police chases in California. Why do these idiots run from the police? Because they know they will be in the news! Why do these shooters go to school/ church/ wherever? I believe it's a shot at infamy! and what are we doing?? GIVING THEM JUST THAT!!! I am furious that we are still seeing this disgusting footage being aired on TV. What are we saying to these Ritalin addled kids who are contemplating murder/suicide? Ah, just go ahead, we'll make you famous, and we will continue to keep your thoughts alive. In my own opinion, I think this is gutter media, and should be left for the garbage. I don't mean to knock Jeanne for doing her job, I just don't think we need to make the whole damn story another highlight reel in the evening news! I could not believe that every local news channel was running this story last night! This kid has passed, just as his legacy should have. I think we have only started to see where these types of sickening situations are going, and as long as we keep airing and popularizing them, there will be many more to come. Do we really need to remind the families of the victims how much it hurt? I guess it's okay, as long as the ratings are up.

teachit 12-19-2007, 10:29 PM Add to the Discussion
It's a shame, but we live in a free society, so anyone can bring a gun into any location and a church is no exception. Pastors even receive death threats for what they teach. So yes, there are armed guards in schools, in malls, and yes, in churches. The police cannot possibly be everywhere at one time.

pktrkt 12-17-2007, 4:18 PM Add to the Discussion
Why does a church need armed security guards?

davefal 12-14-2007, 4:34 PM Add to the Discussion
it is sad that he did this but I can see why he parents and the uncle that is a pastor spiritually abused him so they are the ones at fault for all this. there is no difference between physical abuse mental abuse or spiritual abuse

jaxerdog 12-14-2007, 1:26 PM Add to the Discussion
I applaud the actions of Jeanne Assam. For what it's worth, most modern translations render Exodus 20:13 and Deuteronomy 5:17 as "You shall not murder." Regardless, whether God was with Jeanne that day is between Jeanne and God. For my part, I see a courageous act that saved the lives of an untold number of people. And in any event, if you look around on the web, you will see that Jeanne's bullets put the man down, but according to the coroner, he fired the fatal shot himself. I pray that if I am in a similar situation, whether I'm at church, school, the mall, or wherever, that someone with Jeanne's calmness and resolve (whatever the source) is there to stand between me and that disturbed, misguided killer.

acheybr_AK 12-13-2007, 8:28 PM Add to the Discussion
On the recent acts of violence since 2001: Killing another human being is a horror and a tragedy to all concerned, and disturbing to society in general. It's always a media bonanza, and can even be used to effectively smoke screen other news with much wider impact. So, why does it happen, and who or what is to blame? You must decide for yourself. If there is sin, one needs to see that the sum of one's transgressions weighs less than a feather, whether you hold a gun, a religious belief you were raised with or developed, love or hatred for others, a computer keyboard at home, a decision level position at the FDA, a seat on the board of a pharmaceutical company, a seat in Congress, or hold a judge's gavel to interpret man's law.

On Jeanne Assam: "THOU SHALT NOT KILL" That goes for you, him her and them over there too, right? Both biblical canonical testaments are open to interpretation by whoever does it, and the books included were selected by councils of human beings. There is no exception to not kill given, by the deity in the Book of Moses. Moses however, after destroying the first set of commandments in anger, tells his followers to all start killing one another as punishment for the holy cow thing. It does not matter what anyone thinks. Someone else will think some THING else, so one ideology never really rules all else. Governmental laws are a bit different. Once disambiguated, there is no more room for interpretation, only legislatively changing the law, or sending a challenge to it through the courts is valid.

Shooting Shooters and Those Who Get Shot -

Preface: Shootings and Other Violence First - Please, whatever you think of Caesar or even a simple citizen of Rome, do an autopsy of his body AND examine his life before you praise, revile, or come to bury him or his crime, no matter how senseless it seems.

Pharmacaea: The Legal Chemical Sorcery of the Pharmaceutical Industry - Can you be 100% responsible for for your own actions when you are told your meds are harmless, or even good for you, or you are actually required by your school to take them? Are these kids in prescription drug withdrawal or medicated little Oracles of Apollo, seated over the Omphalos of Pharmaceutical companies, inhaling the venom of Python in pill form?

Columbine shooters, Klebold and Harris, were both on anti-depressants. They filled their unfinished adolescent minds/brains by playing violent video games. They listened to what have been depicted as "Satanic" and definitely anti- Christian music and lyrics of Marilyn Manson.

There is now a Grand Theft Auto violence level "Christian" video game called "Left behind: Eternal Forces. The game using MicroSoft Halo 3, is being used to attract teenage boys to evangelical churches, and notably, in Color ado. (See Photo With Article) http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/07/us/07halo.html The game's object is to kill as many New Yorkers as possible, after the an end times theology taught "Rapture", disappears many from the planet. Those left behind can get to heaven if they murder some quantity of New York City's people. New York is no stranger to what was officially found to be religious extremist violence. There seem to be no points given for obeying the Mosaic Law of "Thou Shalt Not Kill", or the Christian "Love Thy Neighbor", or "Turn the Other Cheek" or "Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You" or "Whatsoever You Do To The Least Of My Brothers, That You Do Unto Me".

Robert Hawkins had a history of making both suicidal statements and making violent threats. He entered into the state family legal system, because he had threatened to kill his step mother in 2002 when he must have been around 14 years old. Hawkins had been placed on anti-depressant therapy. Flouride molecule based SSRI's pharmaceuticals state in their prescription information sheet something to the effect that even in non-suicidal people especially adolescents, violent or suicidal behavior is a possible side effect and thefore is contraindicated in these cases. Accutane, the anti-acne drug taken by 15 year old otherwise drug and alcohol free honor student Charles Bishop who stole and flew a small plane into the Bank of America building in Tampa Florida in April 2002, was sited as the cause for his suicidal act. He'd been on the drug since April 2001. The incident was also a sad reminder of the massive security failure of debacle of 9-11-01. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/04/16/health/main506331.shtml

Now, that said, the New Life Church/Youth With A Mission (YWAM) shootings centered around religion, in the mind of shooter Matthew Murray. The Scofield Reference Bible belief system, or something like it is taught within the former pastor and president of the National Association of Evangelicals, disgraced Rev. Ted Haggart's New Life Church. That end times themed annotated tome was the first teaching of it's kind, in promoting end times theology. It came from the Plymouth Brethren sect in 1800's England, preached by Rev. John Nelson Darby.

Interestingly Aleister Crowley, the 20th century's foremost Satanist, was also raised in and rebelled against the Plymouth Brethren sect. The Scofield Bible was printed by the Oxford Press, and brought to America, spread rapidly with the support of European central bank operatives like Samuel Untermeyer (Untermeyer's former estate, now a park in Yonkers, NY was a hangout for Son of Sam 44 Caliber Killer, David Berkowitz and his Process Church "Satanists" associates. Colorado church shooter, Matthew Murray rebelled also against his strict brand of Christianity. His brother Chris goes to Oral Roberts University, demonstrating perhaps an example of the deeply religious nature of their upbringing. Both Scofield's side notes, and Crowley's teachings advocate producing accelerated spiritual change in the world. Crowley promoted and wrote incantations, pornographic poetry, drug use meditation, yoga, extreme sex "majick", trance, lights music chanting and other sound in demonic evocation and invocation rituals, also referred to as invoking one's "Holy Guardian Angel" or "Demon Brother".

Modern Christian Evangelism uses the Scofield model, promotional literature, music and singing, PowerPoint presentations, even violent video games (essentially light shows with with a message and screen flicker related brain effects), denial of the sexual impulse, lectures, mission oriented youth evangelism activities, all aiming to "receive the spirit" or "share the spirit" or accept Jesus as one's "personal savior". Drugs, alcohol, and sexual indulgence seems reserved for senior leadership.

The New Life Church infiltrated a controlling system of pastors into the neighboring Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs. Chaplains of other denominations and religions are sidelined for orientation and prayer events, strongly imposed on cadets. The academy's head has been heard stating that the United States of America is a Christian country.

Wiccan upright Pentacle symbols have now been allowed on military cemetery grave markers for fallen Wiccan soldiers, just as crosses and six pointed stars had always previously been. Satanic inverted Pentagrams have not as yet been. One outspoken former Church of Satan member, US Army intelligence officer who wrote the Pentagon's guide for PsyOps (Mind Wars) , Col. Michael Aquino, once appeared on both Oprah, and on Geraldo to deny Satanist involvement in the rash of reports of Satanic Ritual Abuse (SRA), such as in the McMartin School case. He and his wife, Lilith did have their own legal brushes, being accused by kids at a California Army base day care center. No convictions were made. They went on to found an Egyptian mystery based religion called the "Temple of Set". The Church of Satan has roots in the late Anton LaVey's writings, much of which was ripped off from other authors, and whose beliefs were based on the writings of Aleister Crowley. Notably Crowley's "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law", and "Love is the law, love under will".

As most Christian sects did, throughout even early history through to today, not just during the Reformation, Satanists have also gone through theological splits, infighting, and interfaith suspicions, jealousies and accusations of murder.

In any case is religion itself a sufficient cause or violence or does improper prescription of mind altering pharmaceutical drugs enough? The two in combination, at least in the shooting in Colorado of recent years seem to mutually enhance the effect of either.

Violence whether drug induced or precipitated by religious extremist views and hatred is in desperate need of critical and as much as possible emotion free analysis. "Why" and "How" are the most important questions on the path to stopping any problem.

Again it does not matter what anyone believes, because everyone believes something else. Where the median view exists, or most popular views hold, the result is law and changes to them. In America, we market inclusiveness as part of the democratic ideals which our republic was founded on. Removing any view point from the discussion weakens us all, and strengthens ideologies behind banned speech, making martyrs out of even it's most ridiculous proponents.

jfwhee@yah 12-13-2007, 4:14 PM Add to the Discussion
I believe that the Lord does allow his people to use deadly force when necessary. Look at the story in the bible about David and Goliath. You have to be a loon, fruit, or nut to think that we should just let someone slaughter us. With God on my side who can be against me?

Pinecamguy 12-13-2007, 3:14 PM Add to the Discussion
So you don't "allow" people to call it an assault rifle? Perhaps you could get them to call it a "love machine" .... or a "doosey daisy" -- anything but what it really is.

Yeah, a rifle with a 30-round clip really comes in handy when you're deer hunting. (In case you miss with the first 29 shots).

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