South'ner, Further please check out this site: http://www.williampmeyers.org/republic.html

OK. What was I supposed to get from this site? Here are some things that I saw on the site that affirm what I have been saying...

What distinguishes a republic is that it has an elected government.

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Beginning with the Constitution's adoption, America has been a Republic.

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True, the creation of the Constitution itself was partly a reaction against democracy.

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Since 1913 the U.S. Senate has been elected directly by the voters, rather than being appointed by the state legislatures. That makes the national government democratic in form, as well as being a republic.

Yep, we were a republic, and still are a republic. We do many things in a democratic way, but at the ehart of our foundation we are still a republic.

South'ner

http://www.williampmeyers.org/republic.html

"[You]fail to mention that democracies and republics overlap. They are not opposites. And []fail to account for the history of American government since 1788, much less the debates that took place in America prior to 1788, when the U.S. Constitution was substituted for the Articles of Confederation. Democracy means rule of the people. The two most common forms of democracy are direct democracy and representative democracy. In direct democracy everyone takes part in making a decision, as in a town meeting or a referendum. The specific rules may vary: perhaps everyone must agree, perhaps there must be consensus, perhaps a mere majority is required to make a decision. The other, better known form of democracy is a representative democracy. People elect representative to make decisions or laws. Again, specifics vary greatly."

democracy 1. Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives. 2. A political or social unit that has such a government. 3. The common people, considered as the primary source of political power. 4. Majority rule.

Which definition are you using? Aside from this, I agree 100% with your take on election fraud. People are becoming more and more numb to election fraud and just assume everything will be fine.

Also, I would say that if everyone in Florida who intended to vote for Gore had successfully voted, he would have had a majority of the votes in Florida, as he had in the entire country.

THE RIGHT TO VOTE (AND HAVE OUR VOTES ACCURATELY COUNTED) IS THE LINCHPIN OF OUR DEMOCRACY.

Not to knit-pick, but we are not a democracy. We are a representative republic. There are some very subtle, but important, differences. Either way, though, our right to vote and have our vote accurately counted is of utmost importance in the election of public officials.

IF WE DON'T GET A HANDLE ON THIS PROBLEM AND ALL OF THOSE WHO ARE TAKING ADVANTAGE OF IT, WE WILL HAVE NO DEMOCRACY.

Or republic. And, yes, you are right as to what will happen, and it already is. This country would be the biggest opponent of a one-nation world. But through recent leaders in this country, the people are being prepared for a one-nation world. As we become more and more censored in this country, other countries are becoming more and more democratic. There is a meeting place near the middle to form the one-world nation, but it will not stay in the middle once it is formed. The sands upon which that nation is founded will quickly move to prepare for additional events.

IN FACT, I'M NOT SURE WE HAVEN'T ALREADY LOST OUR DEMOCRACY TO VOTING FRAUD.

Voting fraud seems to be more and more prevelant these days. But it is also becoming more and more accepted. Just look at this message board for an example. People were screaming at the top of their lungs when the issue first happened, then as time went on fewer and fewer discussed it. Now that we have a governor this board is all but dead. People will cry when they see something foul, but are not willing to get their hands dirty in trying to get the system changed and improved.

IT SEEMS THAT THERE'S BEEN A FREE-FOR-ALL IN STEALING ELECTIONS, NOT THE LEAST OF WHICH WAS THE 2000 PRESIDENTIAL RACE,...

A lot of people felt that way when Bush was declared the winner. However, most have heard the reports from the very liberal Florida newspapers and news agencies which did recount the votes and agreed that Bush won. The confirmation of the newspapers/agencies had two effects on voters: 1) for some it confirmed that the system does work and does get to the real winner eventually, 2) for some it confirmed that there is no need to change the system since the winner was declared the winner. Both of these effects dumb down the horror and disbelief many voters had at the time (which is not good). Now we see a little fuss over the governor of Alabama, no 100% positive resolution, and acceptance of the Alabama voters. This also helps dumb down the effects of a controversial race, and prepares voters for even more such problems in the future... but it prepares voters to accept the problem and outcome, not accept that the system is flawed and must be fixed.

IT'S NOT HOW WINS OR LOSES, IT'S HOW YOU PLAY THE GAME

In politics, it is who wins the game, period. Not saying that is right or how it should be, but it is fact. Until the people cry loud enough and long enough nothing will be done to correct the problem. Instead, each controversy will be covered less by the media and voters, and the result accepted with less fight than less time. The end result is an appointed leader with no complaints from the people.

South'ner

THE RIGHT TO VOTE (AND HAVE OUR VOTES ACCURATELY COUNTED) IS THE LINCHPIN OF OUR DEMOCRACY. IF WE DON'T GET A HANDLE ON THIS PROBLEM AND ALL OF THOSE WHO ARE TAKING ADVANTAGE OF IT, WE WILL HAVE NO DEMOCRACY.

IN FACT, I'M NOT SURE WE HAVEN'T ALREADY LOST OUR DEMOCRACY TO VOTING FRAUD. IT SEEMS THAT THERE'S BEEN A FREE-FOR-ALL IN STEALING ELECTIONS, NOT THE LEAST OF WHICH WAS THE 2000 PRESIDENTIAL RACE, WHICH I CONSIDER TO BE ONE OF THE MOST SHAMEFUL EVENTS IN OUR HISTORY AND WHICH DEMINISHED OUR STANDING AS A FREE AND DEMOCRATIC PEOPLE IN THE EYES OF THE WORLD.

IT'S NOT HOW WINS OR LOSES, IT'S HOW YOU PLAY THE GAME

We should have a law that requires it when the margin of victory is this razor thin.

Herein lies the heart of this problem... the law requiring recounts does not exist.

Everyone has an opinion, preference, or position as to what should have been done in this instance, but no law supports the recount, a hand recount, or a statewide recount. If we want to try and prevent this from happening again, such a law needs to be submitted and passed.

There are problems with recounting votes. What if the numbers are not exactly the same after two counts... what do you do? What should the law say about how to determine the winner in a close race? Some suggestions are count 'em three times and take the average, recount until the exact same numbers are achieved two times, or recount until you have the same winner twice (although the last one leaves even more room for error acceptance).

There needs to be a way to deal with these issues, but it has to be a complete and thorough solution. Just making a law saying we recount if the election is close is useless without other constraints and guidelines.

If credit card companies can keep up with interest, fees, and every penny spent by their customers at locations all over the world, - why can't we have fair and accurate elections?

Credit card charges are done by computers transferring numbers that are checked at the point of entry. Voting, even where modern machines are used, is far from keeping up with credit card charges. When a person votes, they do not see how their vote was recorded... they might get an indication that the ballot was accepted and counted, but not who received their actual vote. It is possible to provide such feedback, but would require moving to either computer voting, or computer feedback of an inserted ballot. Any solution to providing a voter with feedback as to who their vote went to will not be cheap, either. So now we have the issues of a voter using a computer to vote or check their votes and increased costs to each vote. I don't know that the people will agree that more money should be spent on this considering other areas of need in this state.

South'ner

I am offended by the statements made by Riley's attorney. Although, I'm not sure a statewide recount is called. We should have a law that requires it when the margin of victory is this razor thin. Again, I definately want to know exactly what went on in Baldwin County. I think vote-tampering should be tried as a crime of treason, punishable by execution. Voting is our most sacred freedom as Americans, and I'm sick of these suspicious elections all over the South. Voters, even Southern voters, are not as stupid as one may think.

If credit card companies can keep up with interest, fees, and every penny spent by their customers at locations all over the world, - why can't we have fair and accurate elections? Answer: we can, which makes this kinda thing, constantly happening in the South, obvious tampering.

Kindest Regards LC

Sarah Johnson

Why did the Whites and Blacks take their children out of the Bessemer school system? Until recently, it was managed by theives that could not care less about the education of children. The new superintendant has put an end to that.

As for not living in the Bessemer area, you could do a lot worse. The race relations in Bessemer have been above average as long as I have lived in the area (54 years).

Let me surprise you. I am a REALTOR(R). The large majority of people that I have sold a home to in Bessemer have been young White upwardly mobile professionals.

Just like the election. Do not believe everything you hear and see.

I would not live anywhere but the Western side of town. Convenient, affordable, historic, we have it all.

Positively,

Nana